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Emulator Issues #10486

Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door > Party Member Koops > Ability Does Not Cooperate

Added by Anonymous almost 3 years ago. Updated almost 3 years ago.

Status:
Invalid
Priority:
Normal
Assignee:
-
% Done:

0%

Operating system:
N/A
Issue type:
Bug
Milestone:
Regression:
No
Relates to usability:
No
Relates to performance:
No
Easy:
No
Relates to maintainability:
No
Regression start:
Fixed in:

Description

Game Name?

Paper Mario; The Thousand Year Door

Game ID? (right click the game in the game list, properties, info tab)

G8ME01

MD5 Hash? (right click the game in the game list, properties, info tab, MD5 Hash: Compute)

db9a997a617ee03bbc32336d6945ec02

What's the problem? Describe what went wrong.

Koops's assist skill is intended to shoot him ahead of Mario to hit switches, retrieve items if there is a gap in the way, etc. If you hold the skill button down Koops will hold himself in place until the button is let go of, and then retrace past the original shooting location (so Mario can effectively set Koops to shoot off near a switch, move himself to a stationary elevator, and then let go of the assist button and hit the switch that will activate the elevator). Currently I cannot get Koops to properly obey the whole "shooting from under Mario's feet" rule, when I hit the assist button Koops will curl up, teleport, and fly off from a completely other end or corner of the room. Early game (before you get the bomb partner) if Koops does not behave properly this could leave you with an unplayable game due to Koops being required to work properly to clear the very first dungeon. He is used at least three times to hit elevator switches for Mario.

What steps will reproduce the problem?

None, this is sporadic and I cannot recreate it if I tried. But when it DOES decide to happen, there seems to be no fixing it.

It is important to make sure the bug hasn't already been fixed. Please tell us what the latest version you've verified the bug on.

Dolphin 5.0, downloaded on 8/15/17.
(I also looked over the first 8 pages of reported bugs, showing 100 per page, and saw nothing related to this matter listed)

Is the issue present in the latest stable version?

Yes, if the Dolphin I downloaded on August 15th, 2017 is the most recent to this report on August 20th, 2017.

If the issue isn't present in the latest stable version, which is the first broken version? (You can find the first broken version by bisecting. Windows users can use the tool https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-green-notice-development-thread-unofficial-dolphin-bisection-tool-for-finding-broken-builds and anyone who is building Dolphin on their own can use git bisect.)

I had Dolphin 3.0 on an old laptop (retired) and when I played this game on 3.0 it did not have this issue with Koops, so I'm led to believe 5.0 is the only one.

If your issue is a graphical issue, please attach screenshots and record a three frame fifolog of the issue if possible. Screenshots showing what it is supposed to look like from either console or older builds of Dolphin will help too. For more information on how to use the fifoplayer, please check here: https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=FifoPlayer

I don't imagine this is a graphical error because when he shoots off in those other locations his entity is physically moved to those other locations (if there are mobs nearby him and he strikes it, it will initiate combat from across the room).

What are your PC specifications? (CPU, GPU, Operating System, more)

This is my PC:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227689

Is there anything else that can help developers narrow down the issue? (e.g. logs, screenshots,
configuration files, savefiles, savestates)

After loading up the game immediately activate the savestate to get you directly where the issue lies, and then press the assist key (it is X on the Gamecube controller). Here is a video, skipped ahead to the partner's ability description, on what Koops SHOULD do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7gvf_98sA4
As in the video, you SHOULD see Koops launch out from under Mario's feet and then return, and upon holding the button you SHOULD see Koops fly out from Mario's feet, hold his position a couple feet away (maybe a couple inches on-screen), and then return upon releasing the button. What Koops does in my game is somehow teleport across the room and hold himself at a completely unrelated spot and if you move Mario while still holding X you can walk up the stairs and down the hallway and see Koops holding his position much farther offscreen. I am only linking my save files at this point in the game because this is when I have seen it the most inaccurate/been able to successfully recreate it, and it is preventing me from completing this sidequest until I progress farther in the game and come back with another follower that should not be needed. Mobs in the room should be defeated and if they're not a first strike will kill them.

  • The only cheats/codes I have active are the Infinite BP and Infinite Shop Points, both were already listed under the game's Properties > AR Codes screen. I can still have this issue with Koops having those 2 cheats inactive.
  • Swapping party members and then swapping back to Koops does not fix this issue.
  • Leaving this room and re-entering does not fix this issue.
  • Swapping party members while outside the room and re-entering both before and after summoning Koops again does not fix this issue.
  • Leaving the entire keep and re-entering does not fix this issue.
  • Leaving the entire zone, forfeiting the trouble and reaquiring it, and traversing all the way back to the keep does not fix this issue.
  • Hard and soft resets of both the emulator and my PC do not fix this issue.

I tried attaching a copy of my savefile, but it exceeds the maximum 5mb file limit, here are links from Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eq0a539zfg3fszq/MemoryCardA.USA.raw?dl=0 Memory Card (Save is set to in town before the "???" Trouble is accepted, if you want to continue from here go to the Trouble Center in town and re-accept it, talk to the masked mouse, and then travel to Hooktail Castle)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zrowx0stbzkreg/G8ME01.s01?dl=0 Savestate (This is set to inside Hooktail's Castle where I most recently found Koops acting up. Mario is staged right beside a switch that needs activated by Koops after holding down the assist button and moving Mario to the top of the nearby yellow elevator)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mngn2zt5fdi3ni4/lastState.sav?dl=0 Laststate file (this is located in the same file as the Savestate, in case it is important)

History

#1 Updated by Fog almost 3 years ago

Can you try this on the latest development version and see if the issue still occurs?

#2 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

EDIT: I apparently did not save the youtube video link properly, please skip to 5:00 minutes in to see the in-game description of Koops's ability if this link does not work:
https://youtu.be/_7gvf_98sA4?t=301

#3 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

Fog wrote:

Can you try this on the latest development version and see if the issue still occurs?

How do I do that? Do I not still have the most updated version having only downloaded the program 5 days ago?

#4 Updated by Fog almost 3 years ago

Development versions are found here: https://dolphin-emu.org/download/

They are below the Stable versions section.

#5 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

"Can't load state from other versions!"

At the top of the screen of the most recent development version. Can I ask why they don't allow this?!

#6 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

Nevermind, I jumped the gun and didn't look to see if I could use my current hard save file, to which I can. Save state isn't necessary as long as the hard file itself loads.

#7 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

I didn't travel all the way to the keep this time before I tested Koops, he is not cooperating even in the middle of town. I try to fire him and he rushes off-screen to another undetermined point before activating his skill, not obeying the "firing from under Mario's feet" rule. Still unresolved in the 5.0-5224 build.

#8 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

Upon further exploration of this issue in a much bigger floorspace (and firing him from many different places to look for a pattern) I've found that Koops will align himself horizontally with the center of the room, and then vertically with Mario. So if I am in the bottom right corner of Rogueport Square and fire Koops off, he will align with Mario and the room's center, placing him just above the southern exit. So his y axis is correct, but his x axis is not. Yeah! This helps, right? :D

#9 Updated by JMC4789 almost 3 years ago

Can you turn off all your cheats?

#10 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JMC4789 wrote:

Can you turn off all your cheats?

Mentioned in the first post:
"I can still have this issue with Koops having those 2 cheats inactive."
Same goes for most recent build.

#11 Updated by JMC4789 almost 3 years ago

I can't reproduce this issue, so I feel like something is seriously wrong with your setup...

#12 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JMC4789 wrote:

I can't reproduce this issue, so I feel like something is seriously wrong with your setup...

Are you trying to reproduce it with a new file or with the copies of my savefile and savestate for 5.0? Because where I saved it at he's definitely not following Mario's x axis upon firing. I did not toggle anything other than controller keybinds when I downloaded the emulator so I'm not sure that a certain graphics or emulation setting or etc is causing it.

This is also, as I mentioned, a sporadic issue that comes and goes. Sometimes Koops will fire properly, and then sometimes he doesn't. I wasn't able to get a badge on a ledge in Chapter 2's Boggly Tree because he was firing from a completely different pillar than the one Mario was standing on. It's not something I can make him fail at if I tried, or fix on command once it's started.

#13 Updated by JMC4789 almost 3 years ago

I don't use savefiles/savestates corrupted by cheats.

#14 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JMC4789 wrote:

I don't use savefiles/savestates corrupted by cheats.

Can I ask how a cheat used to increase the available Badge Points/Shop Points would affect a character's placement coordinates?

#15 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

I made it clear that I have this issue both with AND without those cheats enabled.

#16 Updated by ligfx almost 3 years ago

I'm also unable to reproduce this, either on my save file or on the one you uploaded. You said you don't know how to consistently reproduce this—do you know how often it tends to reproduce itself? i.e., after 100 times shooting Koops, it starts messing up?

If no one else is able to reproduce this, then I'm not sure anything can be done.

#17 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

ligfx wrote:

I'm also unable to reproduce this, either on my save file or on the one you uploaded. You said you don't know how to consistently reproduce this—do you know how often it tends to reproduce itself? i.e., after 100 times shooting Koops, it starts messing up?

If no one else is able to reproduce this, then I'm not sure anything can be done.

I cannot do anything for sure to cause this problem to occur. I will know upon my first attempt of firing him if it is acting up or not, he will either fire from under me, or he won't. Once it starts it won't go away until I just go about playing and doing something else for a while. I can come back after say ten or twenty minutes and try it again and he'll fire properly. It's completely sporadic on whether his coordinates line up when he's called for and no amount of soft/hard resets or reloads or zone changing will fix if the coordinates catch or not. I was able to get through the keep at the beginning of my game without an issue (else I wouldn't be starting chapter 5 right now), but then when I got to the Boggly Tree for Chapter 2 he wouldn't fetch a badge on a distant ledge due to this error. He would fire from the column behind me, which I thought was weird, but I shrugged it off thinking "I'll just come back when I have the yoshi" (that partner can hover over gaps). I mean in all reality I can shrug this sidequest off too until I get another partner, but I wonder how many people might have had this issue that didn't report it, and who might have had it back in Chapter 1 when it's absolutely required to function to continue the game.

Would there be any sort of settings I should flip to see if it will fix? Like loading preferences, rendering, anything? I'm still on stock settings for all of it but perhaps my machine just requires some other box to be checked? The only other thing I can think of would be to redownload the rom itself and hope that holds the issue. Maybe I had a lag spike when downloading and something got jarred.

#18 Updated by Fog almost 3 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Invalid

Going to mark this as invalid until it's something that's reproducible.

#19 Updated by JosJuice almost 3 years ago

I'm not sure if that would be a reason to mark the issue invalid instead of questionable, but... Either way, since the reporter downloaded the game according to comment 17, we will provide no support.

#20 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JosJuice wrote:

I'm not sure if that would be a reason to mark the issue invalid instead of questionable, but... Either way, since the reporter downloaded the game according to comment 17, we will provide no support.

Can I ask how one would go about obtaining a game for a pc emulator in any way other than downloading? I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I honestly don't know of any other method of obtaining roms.

I have since finished my old game and therefore deleted my old game files and downloaded a new copy, with a wired connection, new save file, zero cheats enabled, and am still having this issue with Kooper sporadically. His coordinates did not line up properly on the path between Hooktail Castle and Petalburg when I tried to use him to retrieve a badge at the top of a pipe during Chapter 1. Came back for it after defeating Hooktail and he was working properly, as well as working properly throughout the whole dungeon.

I am also curious to the amount of people that might or might not be a) actively playing this game in particular to even run into this same issue, and then b) the extent of those people who would take time to make an account here to report it or support a reporting of the same issue. Apparently the number is nil. I really do not have a clue what I could do to test this further, aside from incorporating another pc in the house and seeing if I can recreate it under the same circumstances (same development versions, same wired connection, no cheats, not changing options in the emulator/game menus).

#21 Updated by JosJuice almost 3 years ago

For dumping GameCube games, the recommended way is to run CleanRip on a Wii to dump the game, but you can also dump on a GameCube if you have the right equipment or on a PC if you have one out of a few specific models of DVD drives. There's more information here: https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Ripping_Games

Wii games work the same way, except you can't use a GameCube but you can use a Wii U.

Other consoles generally also have ways to dump games, some requiring specific hardware and some not.

#22 Updated by JosJuice almost 3 years ago

By the way, we did get a report about this on the forums a few days ago. It was caused by a cheat being enabled, but you've already tried disabling your cheats, so I suppose that's not the problem in your case...

#23 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JosJuice wrote:

For dumping GameCube games, the recommended way is to run CleanRip on a Wii to dump the game, but you can also dump on a GameCube if you have the right equipment or on a PC if you have one out of a few specific models of DVD drives. There's more information here: https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Ripping_Games

Wii games work the same way, except you can't use a GameCube but you can use a Wii U.

Other consoles generally also have ways to dump games, some requiring specific hardware and some not.

Unrelated to topic:
So other than downloading the game there is really no way for the average user to obtain a rom is what's being implied here, because I don't know a single person of all my pc friends with this kind of knowledge on obtaining them. It makes emulation seem like more of an elite society for the better-ups on pc hardware when you mention something like "user downloaded game so we'll provide no support", when downloading is the only thing most of the population knows, and those specific hardware/software or dvd requirements are something pretty much unobtainable or not understood by most people. I also do not see the difference between someone doing that specified ripping from the original game disc and someone who obtains their game via downloading the files provided from the same source. If the game boots, runs, cooperates, and otherwise does not infect the machine or implode on itself I'd say the file from ripper to user was just as clean and usable as it would be from source to file. Both have the ability to come out good and bad. It doesn't seem right that help would be denied for the general population solely because they cannot provide their own rom. Perhaps a better question to ask would be where they got their files and how reputable that website is for its rom/iso accuracy? Because god knows there's some pretty shady sites that likely have intentionally unstable games just to get the view/download count up, and in turn that would give those of us with no knowledge or ability to provide our own rips to still get some semblance of help if people at least use preferred or at the very least, well known websites for them instead of the dark crevices of nowhere. I realize you're probably not directly involved with how or why certain avenues are used or not, that's fine, it just irked me is all.

Related to topic:
I am going to run the emulator/game on a new pc here in the house that has never seen the light of Dolphin/TTYD and see if it has the same issue. If it doesn't then I know it's my machine. Thank you for relaying that someone else had seen this pop up, at least I'm not alone in the world with a deranged Koops.

#24 Updated by JosJuice almost 3 years ago

The main reason that we refuse to support users who have pirated games is because we don't condone illegal activity, not because of concerns about the dump accuracy. It would've been nice if getting legal disc image files of games was easier, but the methods that I mentioned are really all that we have for GameCube games right now... (Running CleanRip on a Wii is easier than it might seem, though! You just need a Wii and an SD card, and we can answer any questions about the process on the Dolphin forums.)

I would suggest that you stop commenting on this issue report – we won't provide any support with the issue, and the decision about not condoning piracy is set in stone. The only reason that this report hasn't been locked for comments (like it would have been if this had happened on the forums) is because the issue tracker software doesn't give developers a convenient way to do so.

#25 Updated by Anonymous almost 3 years ago

JosJuice wrote:

The main reason that we refuse to support users who have pirated games is because we don't condone illegal activity, not because of concerns about the dump accuracy. It would've been nice if getting legal disc image files of games was easier, but the methods that I mentioned are really all that we have for GameCube games right now... (Running CleanRip on a Wii is easier than it might seem, though! You just need a Wii and an SD card, and we can answer any questions about the process on the Dolphin forums.)

I would suggest that you stop commenting on this issue report – we won't provide any support with the issue, and the decision about not condoning piracy is set in stone. The only reason that this report hasn't been locked for comments (like it would have been if this had happened on the forums) is because the issue tracker software doesn't give developers a convenient way to do so.

On topic:
Well I'd like to take advantage of the ability to still reply to at least do so one last time for anyone else having this issue that sees this thread. This other pc worked perfectly with a fresh install of both the game and emulator. Koops's coordinates have lined up properly so far for the last 4.5 hours that I've been playing and I'm on the verge of beginning Chapter 3 without a single hang-up. I imagine I missed a setting or something carried over in my files on my own pc last time I tried starting over, and it's likely caused by one (or both) of those 2 specific cheats being enabled. So if anything perhaps I helped narrow down the cause from however big that person's list of enabled cheats was to just two: Infinite BP and Infinite Shop Points.

Off topic:
As far as "piracy" goes, the definition of piracy is "the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc." Note that the definition includes "unauthorized reproduction or use of", so simply ripping the game directly from the console itself is also piracy. Even if I am ripping a game I own from a console I own to be played on my own (no middle man, no exchanging hands or "reproduction") I am still partaking in "unauthorized use of a copyrighted product" because I do not own the intellectual property and they have not given me permission to play it any other way. The games and consoles are encrypted for a reason, we have to use special software to get it off of them for a reason; because the original creator didn't want the software going anywhere else, yet here we emulators are saying we do not condone piracy while doing the very thing we say we're against. This makes almost the same amount of sense as a lingerie company saying they don't condone intercourse, but still continuing to produce clothing intended for intercourse. I personally do not deem self-ripping as avoiding piracy and I don't understand how it could avoid that category at all, but if it helps the creators of the emulator feel better about their product that was made with the sole intention to unauthorizingly use a copyrighted product by avoiding assisting with downloaded versus self-acquired files, then so be it. What is stopping users from saying they ripped their own files just so they can get help with their issues? Since being as honest as possible apparently is met with the "how dare you" bit/guilt trip most use in retort to emulation. None of us in this situation, from the creators to the users, are any better than anyone else. And after reading the forum rules, yeah, makes it pretty dead clear that trying to even talk about it in a considerate or intellectual manner would still result in an immediate ban or locked thread as you mentioned. I wonder how many other users come here in genuine search of assistance to swiftly be met with an instant ban over an accidental "admission of guilt" or so the forums call it, over something they had no idea would be against the rules (since those rules are not posted here to be readable from what I could find). There's something completely else to be said of enforcing silence, but I'm not going to fight it. I'll consider this thread closed, too. I don't "condone" the mentality of the way this place is operated, so I'll refrain from using it.

Again this is not a personal thing and I'm aware you're not the catalyst for all their decision making. I only question, albeit out loud and with curiosity, their reasoning. Farewell, bookmark deleted.

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